Day for night shootings

[Jambu]

Hi!
Anyone knows of movies where i can see how really looks a Day For Night shooting?

I think there's a DFNs at the beginning of House of whipcord by Pete Walker, when the girl meet the truck driver, but i'm not so sure...

And more, has anyone ever tried to make a day shooting looking like a night shooting using a digital effects after transferring?
How does it looks?

Thanks.

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[MovieStuff]

Well, it can look great if you do it great or it can look bad it you do it bad. Day for night is more of an excerise in asthetics and not an exact science. The idea is to simply think of the sun as the moon; but really bright, since moon light is really reflected sunlight anyway, just less of it.
So, by artifically cutting back on the exposure, you can achieve the "night" look. However, even if you had film with enough latitude to shoot at night under moonlight, the results would not necessarily be asthetically pleasing, though they might be technically accurate.

Therefore, the idea is to cheat a bit and introduce a hint of blue into the shot to give it a cool feel. This can be done by shooting tungsten film with no daylight correction or by using blue filters. In either case, using ND filters to lower exposure about 2.5 stops (at the most for K40) is preferred so that you will be shooting wide open, as you would if you were really shooting by available light at night.

Also, having the sun to the side or slightly quater lit from the back is preferable so that you get some decent modeling on the people's faces. I would NOT attempt a day for night on an overcast day as everything will be flat and murky with no contrast to delineate the subject matter.

Try practicing with tungsten slide film in a still camera. Make sure you view your slides projected in a darkened room and not by just holding them up to the light. You need to simulate the viewing experience as much as possible. Size of screen and distance will affect how well such scenes are tolerated by an audience. Likewise, having it trasferred to video changes the formula a bit.

Doing it digitally is a breeze, if that is an option.

Roger

[Jambu]

Hi Roger, thanks for your reply (if you remember, time ago you replied me at the same answer but, you know, i'm a bit slow on the uptake so...)

Maybe i can use a polarizer filter (which has a 2,5x factor correction) as a ND filter and at the same time try to darken the sky (i read the polarizer is the only filter that can darken the sky when you're using a colour film)... What do you think of it?

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[MovieStuff]

Actually, a polarizer's function is to cut glare and will also increase contrast and definition. If you are doing a day for night shot, you should try and avoid the sky. However, use a grad filter (some are made by Cokin) to darken the sky, while leaving the area below the horizon line unaffected, works quite well. Cokin makes quite a few grad filters in different colors. But a polarizer alone won't do the trick as the sky will still come out "white" by comparison to the rest of the subject matter.

Roger

[Actor]

Except for the night scenes outside Etta's cabin and the night scenes in town, all the night scenes in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid are day-for-night.

[This message has been edited by Actor (edited August 26, 2001).]

[MovieStuff]

Another scene that is day for night is in "Goin' South" with Jack Nicholson and Mary Steenbergen. Nestor Almendros was the DP on that film and the photography is really nice.

Roger

[Alex]

Agree with Roger, avoid the sky.

Visualize the willowy hilltop in the background kind of shot (an no sky), and probably more medium shots and less wide shots, as usually something in the wide shot may give away that it is a day for night shot.

The wider the shot, the more chance the contrast value (brights to darks) of the scene will be higher, which can ruin the effect if they are too high.

-Alex

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[Matt Pacini]

Yeah, I'm going to be shooting night scenes in the forest at the end of Septemter, and I'm scared ****less that it's going to look fake.
I'm shooting on K-40, so the temptation to shoot day for night was almost unbearable, but I decided not to do that.
So I'm going to be rigging as many lights as I can on ropes strung between trees, which should be a royal pain the keester! (Did I mention I'm afraid of heights?)
Very rugged terrain.
Anyway, I need lots of light to get a decent exposure over this large area, but I don't want it to look fake.
If you only light a small area, you get that really obviously lit fake look.
Roger, have you ever lit DFN in a similar situation?
I mean, there is no justification of the light, since there are no streetlights, etc., and I can't afford (not do I have power for) a 12K HMI or something to simulate moonlight.
I have a plan, but I'm nervous enough to ask for any ideas anyone WHO HAS ACTUALLY DONE THIS has.
Thanks!
Matt Pacini

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[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
Yeah, I'm going to be shooting night scenes in the forest at the end of Septemter, and I'm scared ****less that it's going to look fake.
I'm shooting on K-40, so the temptation to shoot day for night was almost unbearable, but I decided not to do that.
So I'm going to be rigging as many lights as I can on ropes strung between trees, which should be a royal pain the keester! (Did I mention I'm afraid of heights?)
Very rugged terrain.
Anyway, I need lots of light to get a decent exposure over this large area, but I don't want it to look fake.
If you only light a small area, you get that really obviously lit fake look.
Roger, have you ever lit DFN in a similar situation?
I mean, there is no justification of the light, since there are no streetlights, etc., and I can't afford (not do I have power for) a 12K HMI or something to simulate moonlight.
I have a plan, but I'm nervous enough to ask for any ideas anyone WHO HAS ACTUALLY DONE THIS has.
Thanks!
Matt Pacini
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously you should shoot a test roll for day for night...you have the ideal location to get away with it, interior woods...just don't show the sky, but if you do show the sky, make sure it's the deep rich blue part of the sky rather than the white hot part of the sky.

The key is (pun intended) is not have the sky brighter than your actors.

-Alex

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[Jambu]

Originally posted by Alex

>The key is (pun intended) is not have the sky brighter than your actors.

Hey, that's what i call the magic power of synthesis! Great! So i think we could resume the rules for a DFN shoot like that:

1. Underexpose of about 2 / 2.5 stops using a ND filter so you can...

2. ...use medium or wide diaphragm aperture.

3. Be sure to have deep shadows on your subject.

4. Avoid the sky on the shoot or, if you can't avoid it, be sure not to have the sky brighter than your actors.

5. If you shoot a tungsten film avoid using filter correction or use a blu filter.

6. The responsibility rest entirely with you if you obtain bad shots following this rules!

Am i right? Some other rules i forgot?

JAMBU

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